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Topic Title: OLE Activation in objects
Topic Summary: Is there a way to set the default to not edit in-line?
Created On: 29-Feb-2008 21:12
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Answer This question was answered by Kevin Murphy, on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:00 PM

Answer:
I solved this, or at least created a workaround.

After lots of googling, I can still not determine what makes an OLE object from any application open in-line versus in its own window. I still believe this is a Windows setting somewhere, vs. application-specific setting, but I could not find any evidence of this.

So I had to figure out how to trick DOORS. I figured it out.

Insert an OLE object as a link. This is generally not recommended, but it's only temporary. After the OLE object has been put into DOORS, highlight the object, right-click and choose "OLE Object Properties." Choose the "Link" tab and then choose "Break Link." You'll get a warning. Click OK to bypass the warning.

From now on, when you double-click that object, it will open in its own window!

In-line editing in DOORS is just a bad idea and I really wish Telelogic would disable it. Think about it--the main column is usually not wide enough to handle OLE objects. Worse, when Visio diagrams are embedded and opened in-line, the stencil take up a good 25 % of the window, and thus the diagram becomes impossible to work with.

If anyone at Telelogic is listening, please remove in-line editing from DOORS, or at least give an option to switch what the default open type is (edit vs. open)....but still, I don't know why anyone would want to update any object in a tiny window in DOORS.
 29-Feb-2008 21:12
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Kevin Murphy

Posts: 120
Joined: 16-Jan-2008

In DOORS, it used to be that when I double clicked a Word Document OLE, Word would open in a separate window and I could use all of Word's menus (file>page setup for example).

In DOORS 8, the default double-click behavior is to edit in-line, and things like file>page setup do not give the OLE application's page setup, but rather DOORS' own.

I personally do not like in-line editing. Is there a way to set this or change it? Is it a Windows system setting or is it built-in to DOORS.exe. Or is there a registry setting?

I know you can click the OLE object and go to Edit>[object type] object>Open, and that's what I'm doing, but I'd like to have my double-click back.

Possible?

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 4-Mar-2008 15:17
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Ken McNair

Posts: 47
Joined: 12-Sep-2003

I tried this and don't have a problem in DOORS 8.2. If I double click on a Word table embedded as an OLE object, it opens a separate Word window as before, with full access to all Word menus including Page Setup. It seems to depend on how the Word object was imported. In another module I have some word objects that I can only edit in-line, but they may have been created by copy/past or drag/drop from a word doc. Try cutting the object text, pasting it into a separate Word file then using Insert->OLE Object->Create from File.

Ken.
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 5-Mar-2008 20:30
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Kevin Murphy

Posts: 120
Joined: 16-Jan-2008

Thanks for the reply, Ken. I shall expirement, but I can tell you that I do not ever copy and paste OLE data into DOORS. I always use Insert>OLE object and have been doing so for years.

I used DOORS 7.1 at another company and always just double-clicked, and objects never opened in-line. But on all DOORS 8 systems I've been on (at new companies) it opens in-line, so it's interesting to me that your system seems to have that setting I want.

I really want to know what determines how OLEs open...I will try copy/pasting just to see.

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 11-Mar-2008 18:00
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Kevin Murphy

Posts: 120
Joined: 16-Jan-2008

Answer Answer
I solved this, or at least created a workaround.

After lots of googling, I can still not determine what makes an OLE object from any application open in-line versus in its own window. I still believe this is a Windows setting somewhere, vs. application-specific setting, but I could not find any evidence of this.

So I had to figure out how to trick DOORS. I figured it out.

Insert an OLE object as a link. This is generally not recommended, but it's only temporary. After the OLE object has been put into DOORS, highlight the object, right-click and choose "OLE Object Properties." Choose the "Link" tab and then choose "Break Link." You'll get a warning. Click OK to bypass the warning.

From now on, when you double-click that object, it will open in its own window!

In-line editing in DOORS is just a bad idea and I really wish Telelogic would disable it. Think about it--the main column is usually not wide enough to handle OLE objects. Worse, when Visio diagrams are embedded and opened in-line, the stencil take up a good 25 % of the window, and thus the diagram becomes impossible to work with.

If anyone at Telelogic is listening, please remove in-line editing from DOORS, or at least give an option to switch what the default open type is (edit vs. open)....but still, I don't know why anyone would want to update any object in a tiny window in DOORS.

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 11-Mar-2008 18:11
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ron lewis

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Joined: 20-Sep-2004

Not only inline edit is bad -- I refrain from editing any ole's in DOORS cause a bug that has been known to pop up in that an export may not contain the layer that DOORS displays. And who want to review each ole to ensure no error in export?

Edited: 11-Mar-2008 at 18:12 by ron lewis
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 12-Mar-2008 13:22
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Bob Mathis

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Originally posted by: Kevin Murphy

Insert an OLE object as a link. This is generally not recommended, but it's only temporary. After the OLE object has been put into DOORS, highlight the object, right-click and choose "OLE Object Properties." Choose the "Link" tab and then choose "Break Link." You'll get a warning. Click OK to bypass the warning.


But if you do this, then how do you create any documentation? OLE objects are REQUIRED to be linked in order to export them in DocExpress.

-------------------------
Bob Mathis
Robert.S.MATHIS@odot.state.or.us
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 12-Mar-2008 17:20
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Kevin Murphy

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Joined: 16-Jan-2008

Bob,

First, I don't use DocExpress. I use WEXP and the standard Word Export.

Secondly, I think you're plain wrong on this one.

A Linked OLE is linked to a source file somewhere...so if I insert a visio diagram--c:\temp\visio.vsd without linking, it gets put into DOORS and DOORS expects all updates to this file to be done in DOORS, not c:\temp\visio.vsd. In fact, if I update c:\temp\visio.vsd, those changes will not be reflected in DOORS.

When you insert an OLE object being linked, whenever you edit the visio diagram in DOORS, you are editing c:\temp\visio.vsd. Further, if you edit the visio diagram outside of DOORS, when opening DOORS, the Visio OLE would be updated.

The reason that linking is not recommended for OLE objects is just the above. You've put c:\temp\visio.vsd into DOORS and it works flawlessly for you. C:\temp\visio.vsd doesn't exist on my machine, and thus I can't see it and I believe DOORS spits out an error.

Whether or not the OLE is linked should have no bearing on DocExpress. Now, I know you have to define styles for pictures and OLE object in DocEx. In theory anyway, whether or not OLE objects are linked to source files should not stop any OLE objects from going to Word via DocEx. DocEx does not and should not care whether the OLE is linked as long as it can read the OLE (be it in c:\temp or embedded in the DOORS module).

I am no DocExpress expert, but if you are right, this is a (yet another) reason to not use DocExpress. And while I always welcome reasons to not use DocEx, I think that this one isn't valid.

Perhaps you meant something else?

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 12-Mar-2008 20:32
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Bob Mathis

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Originally posted by: Kevin Murphy

Bob,



First, I don't use DocExpress. I use WEXP and the standard Word Export.



Secondly, I think you're plain wrong on this one.



A Linked OLE is linked to a source file somewhere...so if I insert a visio diagram--c:\temp\visio.vsd without linking, it gets put into DOORS and DOORS expects all updates to this file to be done in DOORS, not c:\temp\visio.vsd. In fact, if I update c:\temp\visio.vsd, those changes will not be reflected in DOORS.



When you insert an OLE object being linked, whenever you edit the visio diagram in DOORS, you are editing c:\temp\visio.vsd. Further, if you edit the visio diagram outside of DOORS, when opening DOORS, the Visio OLE would be updated.



The reason that linking is not recommended for OLE objects is just the above. You've put c:\temp\visio.vsd into DOORS and it works flawlessly for you. C:\temp\visio.vsd doesn't exist on my machine, and thus I can't see it and I believe DOORS spits out an error.



Whether or not the OLE is linked should have no bearing on DocExpress. Now, I know you have to define styles for pictures and OLE object in DocEx. In theory anyway, whether or not OLE objects are linked to source files should not stop any OLE objects from going to Word via DocEx. DocEx does not and should not care whether the OLE is linked as long as it can read the OLE (be it in c:\temp or embedded in the DOORS module).



I am no DocExpress expert, but if you are right, this is a (yet another) reason to not use DocExpress. And while I always welcome reasons to not use DocEx, I think that this one isn't valid.



Perhaps you meant something else?



I agree with all that you say.

Unfortunately, DocExpress DOES care that it is a linked object and will only show an icon if it is not linked. That is why we have to put all OLE object out in a network folder.

And WEXP sounds real nice. Try telling that to any body in a position to make the decision. In government, the decisions are made by committee and the committee decided that DocExpress is the only way to go, so we all have to use it. Whether it's good or not.

-------------------------
Bob Mathis
Robert.S.MATHIS@odot.state.or.us
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 13-Mar-2008 15:40
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Kevin Murphy

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Bob,

Instead of rebutting or disagreeing with you here, I did want to test out what you said to see if it was true.

Unfortunately, the latest version of DocExpress crashes when I use it with DOORS 8.1, on a vanilla, non-custom install, every time, so I can't verify what you say or even expiriment. Thus, I'm inclined to believe you.

That is a severe limitation of DocExpress, and I am floored that you are apparently right.

As far as government work goes, please tell me that they at least gave you training on DocEx, since you had little or no input on the decision....

Kevin

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Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 13-Mar-2008 21:07
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Bob Mathis

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My training on DocExpress consisted of one of the sales reps (who is long gone) giving me a DXL script and some Word templates. none of them worked until I played around with them.

My DOORS training was a 5-day class on how to use it with very little in the way of Admin duties or functions.

My DXL training? - I got the DXL manual and started looking at some existing scripts and seeing what happened when I changed things. After doing this for 5 years, I do OK, but there's always more to learn.

OH, and I am who anyone else comes to if they have a problem.

-------------------------
Bob Mathis
Robert.S.MATHIS@odot.state.or.us
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 14-Mar-2008 15:26
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Kevin Murphy

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I feel your pain. It's amazing that you've kept your sanity.

Congrats on feeling your way through DocEx. I've been at two clients that used it. The first, we got rid of it. The second I just started at and I'm working on switching them to WEXP.

I want to keep an open mind because I heard recently that Telelogic is putting more WEXP-like features into DocEx. So I install DocEx on my machine and follow their awful documentation and get a crash that I cannot resolve.

When I went to see if I could get training, I discovered Telelogic apparently isn't offering any DocEx classes anytime soon. I think they have some sort of web training, but for DocEx, I'd really prefer to have an instructor that I can ask questions to in person, because it is not an intuitive program and its GUI is straight out of 1988. (Seriously, fields that don't accept data you've typed when you click OK, you have to click Confirm, then OK?)

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 10-Jul-2008 19:34
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Kevin Murphy

Posts: 120
Joined: 16-Jan-2008

Back on topic, I have other workarounds:

1. Double click the object to go into "edit/select object text" mode. SINGLE click the OLE. Go to Edit>OLE Object>Open. It opens in its own window, every time. So a for a Word object, with the Word OLE selected, you'd go to Edit>Word Document>Open.

2. Right click the object. Go to properties. From the first tab, double click the OLE object. You can't edit an OLE object in-line inside the properties window.

Hope this helps, but unfortunately these are workarounds. I do not know how to actually solve this problem.

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com

Edited: 10-Jul-2008 at 19:35 by Kevin Murphy
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