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Topic Title: DOORS 9.0 - Discussions
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Created On: 3-Sep-2008 16:07
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 3-Sep-2008 16:07
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Scott Boisvert

Posts: 348
Joined: 14-Apr-2006

So I'm playing around with DOORS 9.0 on my test server and started to mess around with DOORS Discussions. Interesting idea, but has anyone come up with a viable use for this?

Maybe its still early and I'm not awake yet, but I just can't think of any good use for this at the moment, course that could be due to our infrastructure too...

-------------------------
Scott Boisvert
Engineering Tools Administrator
L-3 Communications - Avionics Systems
scott.boisvert@l-3com.com
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 4-Sep-2008 06:12
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Pekka Mäkinen

Posts: 276
Joined: 18-Mar-2004

Discussions could be used as a mechanism for (informal) DOORS based requirements review.

-------------------------
Pekka.Makinen@softqa.fi
SoftQA Oy -http://www.softqa.fi/
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 4-Sep-2008 10:17
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Richard Good

Posts: 152
Joined: 22-Mar-2005

My recollection is that they are there primarily for the integration with Telelogic's new product "DOORS Web Access"

-------------------------
Regards,

Richard Good
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 17-Sep-2008 14:15
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Mia McCroskey

Posts: 6
Joined: 11-Sep-2008

We have a couple BAs who review one another's work. To date we have had the bad habit of embedding comments like "maybe this requirement belongs in XYZ module, not here" into the object text. These comments remind us to discuss, decide, act, and then remove before review outside of the requirements group.

Sure, we could have a separate "comment" attribute. But since we now have the Discussions feature, I've started using it to keep the internal comments out of the external spec.

Also, I'm looking at implementing the new web viewer product for our engineers, so they can provide input without actually editing.

One big problem for me, though: as far as I can tell, there's no indication on an object that there's a discussion attached. I have not yet worked my way through all the docs and stuff, so maybe I'm wrong. But geez, take a clue from MS (God I hate that I just wrote that) -- all the Office products have some kind of "note" indicator.

Am I missing something?

Anyone using this?
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 17-Sep-2008 15:27
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David Pechacek

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Joined: 5-Dec-2006

Mia good luck with Web Access. I also was hoping to implement it for our users who only need read only. But due to the absurd cost of it, its unfeasible. We don't want to buy licenses for each and every person who might use it. We want a general single-site floating license like DOORS has. But Telelogic doesn't offer that for Web Access. They want you to pay them $10,000 for a floating license which is global. Otherwise its $1000 per named user license which is supposed to only be used by a single person.

-------------------------
David Pechacek
AAI Services Textron
dpechacek@sc-aaicorp.com
David.Pechacek@gmail.com
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 17-Sep-2008 17:02
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Mia McCroskey

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Joined: 11-Sep-2008

David -- yes, the pricing might be a show stopper for us too. But we're a small team, so the $1,000 for each of four or five people isn't impossible. But add to that the overhead -- server space, admin time, etc. I do agree that it's overpriced, and I may end up not recommending it at all. I'm going to the user conference next month, figured I'd delve into it then.
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 17-Sep-2008 18:49
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Pekka Mäkinen

Posts: 276
Joined: 18-Mar-2004

If you insert a column in DOORS 9.0 there is a new column type: Discussion. Browse from this to select a suitable discussion column to insert into view - i.e. you might insert a (Layout DXL) column to show all discussion for objects in a column or there are also indicators, working in somewhat similar fashion as the comment indicators in Excel (though in another column).

-------------------------
Pekka.Makinen@softqa.fi
SoftQA Oy -http://www.softqa.fi/
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 18-Sep-2008 20:38
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Mia McCroskey

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Joined: 11-Sep-2008

Thank you Pekka!

I was so focused on finding a "discussions" attribute to add as a column, I didn't notice the new column type.
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 19-Sep-2008 12:47
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ron lewis

Posts: 650
Joined: 20-Sep-2004

I was told that one 'web access' global license could support up to 10 users simultaneously. So, the cost isn't as bad as first impressions.

Edited: 19-Sep-2008 at 13:15 by ron lewis
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 19-Sep-2008 13:11
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David Pechacek

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Originally posted by: Mia McCroskey

David -- yes, the pricing might be a show stopper for us too. But we're a small team, so the $1,000 for each of four or five people isn't impossible. But add to that the overhead -- server space, admin time, etc. I do agree that it's overpriced, and I may end up not recommending it at all. I'm going to the user conference next month, figured I'd delve into it then.


I'll be there as well. I hope to meet a few more people. Last years conference was great. Currently pondering my submission for the DXL script exchange.

Originally posted by: ron lewis

I was told that one global license could support up to 10 users simultaneously. So, the cost isn't as bad as first impressions.


Are you referring to a single DOORS Web Access license? I was not told that when talking to the Telelogic Sales Associate for our company.

-------------------------
David Pechacek
AAI Services Textron
dpechacek@sc-aaicorp.com
David.Pechacek@gmail.com

Edited: 19-Sep-2008 at 13:13 by David Pechacek
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 19-Sep-2008 13:18
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ron lewis

Posts: 650
Joined: 20-Sep-2004

David, yes I was refering to web access.

If you think about how web access works, it would be logical that a license would only be required when user presses an ''enter'' key. Rest of the time the browser is not using a license (i.e., a user is reading the retrieved info).

Also, at 10K for read only license, Telelogic would be charging approximately 3x the price of a full DOORS license -- doesn't sound too logical to me.

Might be worth checking into with you rep -- You know Clyde Burroughs Law, "If you don't know, you gotta ask".

Edited: 19-Sep-2008 at 14:55 by ron lewis
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 19-Sep-2008 13:26
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David Pechacek

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I'll have to speak to Telelogic about this. You'd think they would have mentioned that. If indeed one global license can support 10 users, then yes we might be able to swing 1 license to handle all our test guys who only do read only.

-------------------------
David Pechacek
AAI Services Textron
dpechacek@sc-aaicorp.com
David.Pechacek@gmail.com
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 19-Sep-2008 19:42
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Kevin Murphy

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If you think about how web access works, it would be logical that a license would only be required when user presses an ''enter'' key. Rest of the time the browser is not using a license (i.e., a user is reading the retrieved info).


No offense, but this seems to be rampant speculation to me. You have to sign in to DOORS Web Access, so if you think about it, you might need a license for each user on Web Access.

And Web Access, if actively retrieving data from DOORS, must then, if you think about it, use an active DOORS License too.

You sign into Web Access with a username and password. If you sign into DOORS with a username and password, you reserve a license, even in read-only. So I do not accept your hypothesis.

Can anyone from Telelogic clarify? Really, this shouldn't be that confusing, and is only confusing due to Telelogic/IBM's archaic/greedy licensing terms to begin with.

-------------------------
Kevin Murphy
http://www.baselinesinc.com
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 19-Sep-2008 19:59
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ron lewis

Posts: 650
Joined: 20-Sep-2004

Part of the scientific method is to proposal a hypothesis and then tests it for validity.

However, your approach is to reject a hypothesis without any test.

I developed the hypothesis and tested it by asking our Sales Rep. Of course he may of been right/wrong in his answer but I at least used the scientific method instead of a closed mind.
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 19-Sep-2008 20:14
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Pekka Mäkinen

Posts: 276
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My hypothesis: it seems that Web Access uses a similar licensing model as DOORSNet, for which you could have 5 simultanous users with one license.

-------------------------
Pekka.Makinen@softqa.fi
SoftQA Oy -http://www.softqa.fi/
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 19-Sep-2008 20:16
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ron lewis

Posts: 650
Joined: 20-Sep-2004

Sounds like a reasonable hypothesis -- Have you tested it?
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 19-Sep-2008 20:17
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Pekka Mäkinen

Posts: 276
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No :-) Have not seen yet DOORS Web Access...

-------------------------
Pekka.Makinen@softqa.fi
SoftQA Oy -http://www.softqa.fi/
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 22-Sep-2008 13:26
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David Pechacek

Posts: 674
Joined: 5-Dec-2006

Well if nothing else we've got UGC coming up in a few weeks to ask the Telelogic guys directly. And if we don't like their answer we can yell at them there.

-------------------------
David Pechacek
AAI Services Textron
dpechacek@sc-aaicorp.com
David.Pechacek@gmail.com
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 22-Sep-2008 17:48
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ron lewis

Posts: 650
Joined: 20-Sep-2004

Start yelling now.

David Groff of DOORS support just told me by phone and email that 1 global license gave 1 user access rights.

Quote from email: The license feature for DOORS Web Access (DWA) is one license per user.

Looks like right hand and left hand are not in agreement.

Account rep said a 10 to 1 ratio.

Edited: 22-Sep-2008 at 18:03 by ron lewis
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 26-Sep-2008 17:02
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Jared Pulham

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Joined: 15-Mar-2004

Let me provide some clarity:

The DOORS Web Access (DWA) named user licensing model was put forward based upon the successful Telelogic Change model which guarantees each named user a license for accessing DOORS data. The floating model does not guarantee a user a license and has to be policed by local administrators for license availability.

Because DWA is easily accessible and doesn't require a DOORS installation/upgrade it was determined that the ratio of users would be higher. We easily expect to see 10+ users accessing DOORS data using a DWA floating license. The flexible license for DWA allows singular (single user at a time) access to the DOORS database for any user.

Jared Pulham
DWA Product Manager
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